Power supply |
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brettf 
Topfield Fan 
Joined: 29/Nov/2009 Posts: 13 |
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 Topic: Power supplyPosted: 02/Dec/2009 at 11:05pm |
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thanks heaps for all your help guys
as soon as i get a weekend where the missus or work isnt draggin my sorry ass sumwhere I will give it a go.
Kermit -- with the HDD removed it still shutsdown randomly - i thought of that thinking that it may be the old HDD heat issue - specially with the few days of hot weather here in sydney
but unfortunately no such luck
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tonymy01
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Joined: 06/Nov/2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 03/Dec/2009 at 9:42am |
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I fix them as a hobby, so you won't break the bank. I will diagnose, and normally a fix is payment with a keg of Heineken or bottle of bourbon :-)
Edited by tonymy01 - 03/Dec/2009 at 9:43am |
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TopFeeled
Topfield Fan
Joined: 09/Dec/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 09/Dec/2009 at 7:18pm |
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Brett,
If your unit is more than a couple of years old, it is quite probable that the power supply capacitors are on their way out the most common being the 1,000uF 16V ones. These are an achilles heel in most toppys as the heat gets them and when they start to go a common first symptom is the hard drive wanting to verify files over and over or pixelation when timeshifting or the unit restarting as soon as it seems to start-up or just hanging with "Wait" on the display (for those units with displays). I had one of the original 5000 models handed to me because a supposed computer technician declared the hard drive was dead when in fact it was the power supply capacitors that were gone and the original Seagate hard drive had protected itself from the excessive voltage by shutting down. When we replaced the capacitors, the hard drive bounced back into life as did everything else in the toppy. Dying capacitors can usually be easy to spot when the ends start bulging out. Although the original boards use 1,000uF 16V caps for C17, C18, C19, C22, C23 and C25, many people have found it better instead to replace C17, C18, C19, C23 and C25 with 1,200uF 16V ones and replace C22 with a 2,200uF 16v capacitor. Do not attempt to swap the values of other capacitors otherwise you risk altering the voltage outputs. The power supplies in toppys use a switch-mode design with only the +5V rail fed back to the regulator so if the capacitor on this starts going all the other voltages shoot up as the regulator attempts to keep the +5V rail propped up. Note that as these are polarised electrolytic capacitors, they must be installed the correct way around as if they are put in backwards they will quickly self-destruct and possibly damage the unit beyond repair. WARNING! Do NOT remove the lid of a toppy while it is plugged into the wall. The metal heatsinks are connected to the mains 240V supply via a bridge rectifier so accidentally touching one may be fatal! For your safety be sure to unplug the unit from the mains before opening the case and do not merely rely on switching it off at the wall - physically unplug it. If or when you need to replace the 1,000uF 16V capacitors, it is a good idea to use Low ESR units rated for 105 degrees C. Do NOT use the Low ESR ones from Jaycar if they are "Suntan" brand because they are junk - I have seen them fail in just 4 days! The dodgy ones sometimes have "CD286" on them as well. C25 seems to be the one that goes first. Use Low ESR ones from quality makes such as Panasonic, Elna or Nichicon as these have a track record of restoring toppys to their full glory and handling the heat. You can buy Panasonic FM or FC series capacitors from Farnell or Radio Spares online in packs of 5 for under 10 bucks but do not attempt this unless you are competent in electronic circuit board repairs. Edited by TopFeeled - 05/Jan/2010 at 5:56am |
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rclarke
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Joined: 30/Dec/2009 Posts: 4 |
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Posted: 31/Dec/2009 at 12:00am |
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Gary,
I've got a Toppy TF5000PVRt and it has started freezing regularly in the past week. Did a lot of work investigating whether it's the hard drive, but that seems OK, so it appears to be a power supply issue. My better half is about to have a fit (she can't live without the Toppy working!  ).I'm located in Melbourne. Any chance that you may be able to fix mine? Of course, it's the holidays so if you are around you will need to charge me double time (equals twice the VBs!).  Thanks Russell |
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Garyvx
Topfield Fan
Joined: 12/Nov/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 31/Dec/2009 at 11:58am |
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Hi Russell
No problems, but the issue is that we will need to order the parts and with the long week end (Local Jaycar Caps seem to have issues so I've ordered mine from Farnell in Sydney) it will be mid to late next week.  I'll send you a PM with the details and my contact info. Regards Gary |
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TopFeeled
Topfield Fan
Joined: 09/Dec/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 02/Jan/2010 at 7:16am |
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Russell,
I have stocks of the Panasonic low ESR caps in stock at the moment so can do it for you if you send me your contact details... I suggest you send me a private message rather than post the details in here. 
Edited by TopFeeled - 05/Jan/2010 at 5:56am |
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"Is an Ethernet system in Australia the LAN Down Under?"
Black Masterpiece with 1TB Seagate ST31000528AS 3Gb/s 7200.12 SATA and Marvell 88SA8040 chipset SATA-IDE host adapter |
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TopFeeled
Topfield Fan
Joined: 09/Dec/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 02/Jan/2010 at 7:32am |
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Gary, did you order Low ESR capacitors, not standard ones? Most companies have several families of electrolytics which all have slight differences. If using Panasonic's the FM series is best but more expensive and harder to get but the FC series are quite alright for Toppys and would be far ahead of the factory fitted ones. There are dozens of series from Panasonic but these are the 2 to look for. Both also have 105 degree ratings as opposed to the 85 rating of the SamYoung capacitors most toppys I have seen have in them. The difficult one to replace is the 470uF 50V C10 capacitor on the 30V rail because there is bugger all space for it on the board and all the top notch makes do not make one that value which is physically small enough to fit into the space the factory one does. As a result when you replace it you have to do some creative layout of leads to that capacitor and those ones around it to fit it in. Whoever designed the PCB layout needs a few design lessons with a big stick because there are a few simple changes they could have made that would it much easier to service.
Edited by TopFeeled - 05/Jan/2010 at 5:55am |
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"Is an Ethernet system in Australia the LAN Down Under?"
Black Masterpiece with 1TB Seagate ST31000528AS 3Gb/s 7200.12 SATA and Marvell 88SA8040 chipset SATA-IDE host adapter |
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Garyvx
Topfield Fan
Joined: 12/Nov/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 02/Jan/2010 at 1:27pm |
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Hi TopFeeled
The one's I tell people to get are the Panasonic FC series. The Caps I replace are C22 with http://au.farnell.com/panasonic/eeufc1c222/capacitor-2200uf-16v/dp/9692088 And C23, C17, C18, C19 and C25 with http://au.farnell.com/panasonic/eeufc1c122/capacitor-1200uf-16v/dp/9692070
You mention that you replace the C10 one on the 30v line. According to Dave's write up, that one is not mentioned ( http://members.optusnet.com.au/toppytools/pwrcircuit.html ) so I've never replaced it.I've sent Russell the above info so maybe he has already ordered them, if not then he may contact you for the repairs, it's up to him. Regards Gary Edited by Garyvx - 02/Jan/2010 at 1:29pm |
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TopFeeled
Topfield Fan
Joined: 09/Dec/2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 03/Jan/2010 at 10:35am |
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Rather than order them and wait for delivery etc, you can just buy them straight across the counter from Radio Spare's trade counter in Sunshine West, Melbourne as they are a local stock item and if you check the prices they are cheaper than Farnell on these parts:
the link for the 1,200uF 16V FC series is: http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3150489 and the 2,200uF one is: http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3150495 The FM series that I use usually have to be ordered in from the UK through RS. I changed EVERY electrolytic in mine including the 150uF 400V in the mains inverter; I figured seeing as the other caps are going form the absurd heat the PSU generates that the rest may not be too far behind them. I replaced the C5 capacitor with a Panasonic 180uF 400V 105degree part which is in the same size can as the SamYoung original 150uF 400V 85degree unit. I would not attempt a bigger capacitor than that as the bridge rectifier may not have enough surge current rating to handle it. Mine also has a 1 Terabyte Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 SATA hard disk in it and works quite well so long as the SATA-IDE host adapter uses a Marvell 88SA8040 chipset... other chips from JMicron and Sunplus that also support 48bit LBA sort of work until you try dual channel recording where the picture suffers freezing and dropouts because the throughput is not high enough. I was going to try a 2TB drive but I will wait for them to drop a bit in price because I have heard toppys use the same file system as QNX and that has a 1TB volume limit so if that is true the toppy would not be able to access more than 1TB anyway, but for now I still have over 400GB spare so all is swell. Western Digital has a 1TB "green" hard disk rated with a significantly reduced current consumption but I notice in the specs area of their website they conveniently do not quote what RPM the platter spins at nor is there any seek latency times so I suspect with that reduced power comes a slower spindle RPM maybe 5,400 or 4,500 instead of 7,200 meaning they may be too slow to be used for dual tuner operation - I don't know, haven't tried one but is just a possibility. I have been trouble receiving SBS lately though the signal has dropped to just inside the green section but the picture is jittery and sound almost never there. Every other channel is fine. Edited by TopFeeled - 05/Jan/2010 at 5:54am |
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"Is an Ethernet system in Australia the LAN Down Under?"
Black Masterpiece with 1TB Seagate ST31000528AS 3Gb/s 7200.12 SATA and Marvell 88SA8040 chipset SATA-IDE host adapter |
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mikeathome
Topfield Casual 
Joined: 09/Nov/2009 Location: Adelaide Posts: 347 |
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Posted: 03/Jan/2010 at 11:04am |
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The WD10EVS (1Tb Green AV drive) is a reduced power consumption drive and runs quite a lot cooler than their non-green models. I used one in a 7100 for about 6 months and it was quite capable of handling the TFs workload requirements.
Edit: Sorry, model is WD10EVDS. | |